An Education from Hell

Top first post Georgie. This morning I have listened to a sermon on Hell I want to share it hear with everyone. I think it is a great example of how to share the gospel in a way that makes sense. We see just how bad sin is when we see what Christ endured on the cross for sinners.  

Prepare yourself for an impassioned, vigorous and compelling Education from Hell, by David Legge. For a full collection of David’s sermons visit Preach the Word (you will want to go there after you hear this message). ‘Right click/save as’ or play from the snap preview window.

Here are 3 ABCs of Hell that come from Luke 16 v 19-31

A) All that go in never get out. It is a place of no hope and prayer avails not

B) Before the grave there is mercy alone

C) The chance to be saved is for the living. We only have the opportunity to be saved while we live.

Look forward to your comments after you hear it.

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15 Responses to An Education from Hell

  1. All this just shows that christianity is one more fear-based religion. Posts like this remind me that I’m so, so glad to no longer be a part of it.

  2. Thanks for your comment Jon

    I would encourage you to have a listen to the full message if you haven’t already. I have just summarised some points that the preacher made about hell – perhaps in its context it would make more sense for you.

    Jon, is fear a bad thing?

  3. Is fear a bad thing?
    That depends on whether you are referring to the emotion of fear, or the motivation of fear. The emotion of fear, like all emotions, is neither good nor bad, it’s simply an emotion that God has placed within the wonder of our being. The motivation of fear however is always less than the motivation of love. Any action that we choose based on a sponsoring thought of fear is always less than an action based on a sponsoring thought of love. In this sense, fear is a bad thing. Any religion that makes an appeal to fear is not of God, and that includes christianity with its absurdity of hell. You cannot accept that such a teaching violates all that you know in your heart of hearts of be true about God because you have chosen to believe Other Peoples Words, and in doing so would undermine your entire theology. There is no hell – listen to your heart!
    Jon

  4. Zac says:

    Interesting view Jon.

    “There is no hell – listen to your heart!” Impassioned and honest as that may sound, the bible says the heart is exceedingly wicked and deceitful, so listening to it too much might be more of a hindrance than a promotion. Much better to have the Bible as the basis of our views, as the onus for truth and right is then placed on God’s (capable and anthropomorphic) shoulders.

    Interesting and sobering tack taken by that sermon.

    Zac

  5. Jon

    Are there good people in the world that God approves of?

  6. You know, it is really a shame that this kind of theology, which is so far from what Jesus spoke and believed, is the prevalent belief system in fundamentalist Christianity. It’s a great control feature though. If you don’t listen to me and follow what I am saying, look at the terrible things that will happen. I grew up listening to some version of this theology pretty much every month. Sorry, but I just can’t get on board with a 10-12th century interpretation of the cross.

    And I don’t think Jesus intended anyone else to either.

  7. Zac says:

    Recycled – Is there an alternative to Christ? Search it out.

  8. Daniel,
    How can we possibly categorise people as “good” (or “bad” for that matter)? Each person is hand-made in the image of God. That’s good enough for me! You, me, everyone. All made in God’s wonderful image. I suggest you throw your bible away with its outdated mythologies and models and learn to listen to what God is telling you loud and clear through your own experience, feelings and thoughts. Why live on second hand, 2000 year old revelation? How can your heart really be telling you that unless every person believes correctly God will damn then to hell? I hate that image of God – that is a petty, stupid God that I wish to have nothing to do with. Do you really believe that God would create millions of people in His image, and then send most to an eternity of suffering? What does your heart tell you? Yet you say you cannot trust yourself and that Other Peoples Words have told you your heart is deceitful and corrupt, yet in the same breath you acknowledge you are made in Gods image. And so you have believed the lie that God sent His only Son to die to pay for the sins that we committed out of the sinful natures that we were born with, made by God Himself! Your superstition has Jesus die to make up for the consequences of the work of the Father? What nonsense! If God had wanted us to be clean and righteous, He would have simply created us that way! And if God were the horrid God of your fantasies, what purpose could it possibly serve Him to damn humans to hell forever. Would He not simply cause them to cease to exist? And yet you say these people have chosen this for themselves. You say that God gave us free will, but if we choose certain things we are punished. More fantastic dreamings of your Idolatory. If God had not wanted us to do certain things, we would simply not be able to do them! How can a sovereign being dictate “commandments” and hope or desire they are obeyed? If God wants something to be, it is! Listen to your thoughts, feelings and experience (rather than Other Peoples Words) and you will see that what I am writing is true. We are One with God and each other, and yet you work against God by teaching that we are seperated both from Him and from each other. Give up this old mythology that so badly misrepresents God.

  9. georgiearm says:

    jon 🙂
    hello – as Christians, the word of God contained in the old and new testaments are our basis for what we know about God. It’s how He has revealed Himself to us , and in His son Christ. I don’t think you are talking about the same God as we are talking about. Because our God is the one described in the Holy Bible. We don’t presume to edit out parts of who He is because we think it would make him “nicer” e.g no hell would be nice thanks… we would like to be at peace with you regardless of our total disregard for your standards… etc. In Romans nine there are some words that you need to hear if you are planning on lumping your god in with the living and true God of the scriptures.

    14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!
    15 For he says to Moses,
    “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
    and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
    16 It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
    17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
    18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
    19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?”
    20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”
    21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

  10. Josh says:

    Recycled… just thought you might like to ponder what Jesus actually said about, God fear and hell in Matthew 10:28
    28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
    That would seem pretty compelling evidence to me in two sentences of Jesus’ many words about these topics, that the Jesus you are imagining is indeed imaginary and that the Jesus of the Bible, of history and indeed of reality, actually thought it was worth saying that God made hell for the destruction of body and soul of unbelievers and He should therefore be feared.

    Jonfeatherstone… it interests me that you would bother casting your eyes over a website so obviously devoted to proclaiming, thinking about and sharing a rational, revelational and readable knowledge of God’s will that doesn’t change when you are obviously devoted to proclaiming and believing a knowledge of God’s will that comes from within you in some private and personal revelation known only to you and frustratingly (to you) in contradiction to the things that God has said about Himself, and that Jesus spoke about more than anyone else. We wont be throwing our bibles away and funnily enough I think your very being here, looking at this site and engaging in these conversations about judgement, punishment and hell is some indication of you being unable to get rid of the voice in your head that says”maybe the bible is right, maybe there is a hell.”
    The enemies of Jesus didn’t like being told they were corrupt, bad people destined for and deserving of judgement. That never stopped Jesus telling them. If you don’t know your sick you won’t call a doctor. If you don’t know your a hell bound sinner – you won’t want to hear about a saviour who plunged into hell so you wouldn’t have to.
    We can’t give you faith – make you believe in the Jesus of the Bible. We can just tell you about Him. We can’t make you afraid of what you don’t believe in. If there is no hell then why do you care? Fear only comes when you actually believe the thing your afraid of is real e.g. actually dangerous.

  11. Zac says:

    Side note – “Other Peoples Word” sounds like a cool fantasy codex or something. Jon – I’m curious as to which word/s you ascribe your knowledge?

  12. Hi Zac,
    I was a christian for 25 years, and for all that time I firmly believed in the reformation “sola scripture” doctrine, to the point that I was deeply suspicious of anything that was not-biblical. For many years, I also listened to mainly christian music, read mainly christian books, and had mostly christian friends. It has only been in the last few years that I have seriously begun to investigate outside of the these bounds, and this had lead me into a process of “de-conversion” in which I am now in the thick of. To answer your question, I am currently studying a book (a trilogy actually) called “Conversations With God” that until a few years ago I would have labelled satanic heresy and probably burnt. However, as I read and re-read and study and meditate upon this book, I find that joy just wells up inside my heart the same way it used to with the bible years ago. Through this book (which is only a signpost, nothing more) I am reconnecting with the wonderful love of God that I had somehow lost. I am not saying this book is the be all and end all of God’s revelation to man, but right now it is proving very helpful for me. In fact, this is the whole point of my blog, to document the progress of an “ex-christian” working his way out of the christian world-view and into another (in this case a broadly speaking New-Age world-view).
    Peace,
    Jon

  13. georgiearm says:

    hey Jon,
    was that “conversations with god” trilogy made into a movie? I think i may have seen it.
    The beauty of the reformed faith in its Bible based, systematic theology is also it’s greatest trap. Any keen minded intellectual can read it through, learn it, appreciate the cohesive beauty of understanding the Word in a holistic form, then go further and be able to convincingly defend it and be almost protected within it… yet without the one key ingredient that is necessary for it to have real long lasting meaning and beauty – a living relationship with the one it is all about. Christ Jesus.
    Without a relationship with God – the shine will pass, beneath the good arguments the bones will rot … it can be unpacked and abandoned, without saving faith, because without saving faith it is just a “sound religious investment” for the “thinker.”
    There is a real and present temptation to rest on the proverbial “laurels” and talk from the texts… Professing and following it is futile unless “living faith” is the heart beating within the “reformed faith.”
    This is my opinion.

  14. Geoorgiearm,
    Yes, the COnversations with God trilogy was incorporated into a movie. I have only seen parts of it and didn’t like it at all. Reading the books has been far far better for me.
    I think you are quite right. While anyone can learn all sorts of facts and figures from their holy books, the real meat in the sandwich is a vibrant connection with God. This, like you, I yearn for! Where we differ greatly is in our understanding of what God is like. I cannot love a God (or anyone else for that matter) that I am scared of, and yet the bible tells me to “fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Now of course you will say the christians have no need to fear God in this way, because they are “saved”. Whether that is true or not, I have no wish whatsoever to “love” a God that I know is going to destroy so many other humans, many of whom I have come to know and love. Thats just plain absurd. Some christians emphasise that I should “keep my eyes on Jesus” as if he were somehow a nicer version of the God of the Old Testament and the hell-sending God of the NT, but they are one in the same – “Whoever has seen the father has seen me, etc” I no longer believe that we are born sinners that need to saved by appropriating the atonement in our lives to avoid an eternal judgement from God. We are creatures made in God’s image!!!!!! God lives in me and I live in God, as does everyone else on the planet. The only seperation that exists between God and Man is the wrong belief that there is a seperation. When we remember Who We Really Are (one with God), we experience love and life in all its fullness. Yum! Some days I feel such love and joy well up inside myself as I think on these things, and rejoice!

  15. Hi Jon

    I just posted about a John Piper sermon. In a section of the message he explains the sufficiency of Scripture for instruction, wisdom and correction. Nothing else cuts it:

    What the Sufficiency of Scripture Means
    …Scripture gives us all we need for two things:

    it gives all the authoritative truth we need in order to be saved and grow spiritually, and it gives all the authoritative truth we need in order to make good judgements about what is right and wrong. But the sufficiency of Scripture does not mean that God cannot speak through nature (Psalm 19:1) or that he cannot speak through the human conscience (Romans 2:15) or that he cannot speak through gifts of prophecy and wisdom (1 Corinthians 12:8–10). It means that these are not sufficient to save us or nurture us or guide us. But the Scriptures are sufficient, in the sense that they give the only authoritative rule for completing and assessing those other kinds of revelations.

    From what you have said Jon, you have thrown scripture out the window and are being led by sources of revelation that are not sufficient. Just because you don’t like what the bible says does not mean that you can put your heart in a superior position to it. What is more reliable? If you have the patience, please read a perspective on the reliability of Scripture.

    Here is a question:

    How do we love God? And if seems to daunting to answer, how do little children love their parents?

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